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Forum » Test category » Test forum » Lunarna Subota (Da li je doslo do promene u sedmicnom rasporedu dana?)
Lunarna Subota
bibleboyDate: Monday, 2012-06-11, 10:18 AM | Message # 1
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http://maranathamedia.com/site/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1957%3Athe-lunar-sabbath-lost-ancient-truth-or-modern-dress&catid=135%3Aadventist-issues&Itemid=122

Da li je moguce da je sotona po pitanju Subote i adventiste prevario? Kada sam pre dosta godina istrazivao pitanje sedmog dana bilo mi je neobicno da za sve vremenske odrednice u Bibliji postoji neka prirodna pojava, osim za subotu.
 
bibleboyDate: Monday, 2012-06-11, 10:23 AM | Message # 2
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Sa jedne strane, ako je Isus svetkovao subotu onako kako mi danas svetkujemo, i ako od tada do danas nije nista menjano u tom pogledu, onda je to dovoljno za nas.

4. Zapovest ne kaze "radi onoliko dana dokle ne dodje odredjena meseceva pozicija" nego kaze "sest dana radi, a sedmi je dan...." Zar nam treba neka "nova svetlost" po tom pitanju, smatraju neki?
 
bibleboyDate: Monday, 2012-06-11, 10:28 AM | Message # 3
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Da, ok, ali procitajmo 2 Moj.16. i Isusa Navina 5. Mana, koju je trebalo skupljati 6 dana, a 7 dan odmarati. Kako razumeti ovaj izvestaj? Ja ga pojmim ovako: da je mana pocela da pada 16 dana, 2 meseca od kada je Izrailj napustio Misir, a da je prestala da pada nakon 40 godina lutanja, 16 dana, prvog meseca pri cemu su oba prethodna dana (15) bila Sabat (ne ceremonijalni, vec stvarni Sabat, što nam dokazuje sama zapovijest u vezi skupljanja mane?
Zanimljivo da "jevrejski" izvestaj tvrdi da je Sabat u oba slucaja pocetka padanja i prestanka padanja mane bio 15 dana u mesecu? Hrist je razapet 14 dana u mesecu, a 15 dana, je bio u grobu, sto je takodje bio Sabat 1400 godina nakon prestanka padanja mane? Jel se to desilo slucajno?

Da li mozemo biti potpuno sigurani, da je danasnja subota isti onaj dan o kojem govori Sveto pismo kao o Sabatu? Kojim biblijskim stihom možemo to da potvrdimo da se danasnja Subota i biblijski Sabat poklapaju?
 
bibleboyDate: Monday, 2012-06-11, 10:32 AM | Message # 4
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Hrist je subotu uzvisio u svom zivotu, i to bas onu subotu (tvrde neki) koju su Jevreji svetkovali onda kao i sada. Nikakvu lunarnu subotu, nego onu sedmicnu koja dolazi svakih sedam dana i ciji je ciklus stigao do nasih dana. Jevreji su zato svedoci, a i hriscani koji iako vecina drze nedelju, opet dokazuju da je to nedelja, prvi dan nakon subote. Dakle isti ciklus.

Takodje smatraju da sto se tice onih datuma, da li je bas slucajnost ili ne, to je druga stvar. Ne mora da bude slucajnost, ali zasto bi to moralo da se interpretira kao neka lunarna subota?
 
bibleboyDate: Monday, 2012-06-11, 10:33 AM | Message # 5
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Mesec jevrejskog kalendara traje 29 odnosno 30 dana sto nekako stima sa hipotezom o lunarnoj suboti. Zasto upravo 29? Kod kalendara koji mi koristimo je 30, 31, 28. Kada bi se racunalo da svaki mesec pocinje od mladog meseca kao sto treba, pa se onda svaki mesec na kraju resetovao da bi naredni takodje pocinjao od mladog meseca imali bi najtacniji kalendar, tj. Biblijski. Subote bi padale 8, 15, 22, 29. Dakle cetvrtina meseca. U Isajiji 66:23 se paralelno sa subotom pominje i mladina. To na nesto ukazuje.
 
bibleboyDate: Monday, 2012-06-11, 10:37 AM | Message # 6
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Javila mi se ideja da je mozda u pocetku pre potopa mesecev ciklus trajao 28 dana, (mada prema izvestajima u vezi potopa reklo bi se da je trajao 30 dana), a to je broj koji je deljiv sa 7 bez ostatka. A takvih sedmica ima 4 sto je broj naseg sveta. Medjutim, sada nakon potopa iznosi oko 29,5 dana. Mozda je Bog upravo iz tog razloga uveo bas sedmodnevni ciklus da bi mi imali nepogresivi vremenski orientir za taj ciklus u kretanju meseca. Naravno duzina lunarnog ciklusa se promenila, ali redosled dana je ostao pa samim tim i prava Subota pod predpostavkom da niko nista nije u to dirao.
 
bibleboyDate: Monday, 2012-06-11, 10:42 AM | Message # 7
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Jevreji su koristili lunarni kalendar za svoje verske praznike, medjutim, svakih par godina morali su da koriguju (dodaju dane) inace bi im se sve poremetilo.

Bez obzira na kalendar, ukoliko se sedmicni ciklus nikada nije prekidao ili menjao onda je tema koju sam postavio izlisna.
 
bibleboyDate: Monday, 2012-06-11, 10:46 AM | Message # 8
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Ovo sam upravo procito na facebook-u:

''Dan sunca (nedelja) do prve polovine drugog vijeka POSLE HRISTA je bio, zamisli, DRUGI dan u sedmici, a saturnov dan (današnja subota) prvi. Tek uvodjenjem kulta sunca (koji je zamijenio kult saturna) - dan sunca postaje prvi, a saturnov dan, sedmi dan u sedmici. A da stvar bude cudnija, prije toga, rimska sedmica je imala 8 (osam) dana u sedmici. A da stvar bude jos cudnija, prilikom samog osnivanja Rima, oko 7 vijeka prije Hrista, nije postojala sedmica kao kalendarska vrijednost, nego su rimljani, slicno ostalim narodima mjerili vrijeme po MJESEČEVOM CIKLUSU. I što je još čudnije, ni JEVREJI nisu mjerili vrijeme po sedmicama kao što to čine danas (a Jevreji to čine, gle čuda, od 4 vijeka POSLE HRISTA). Tako da, ako zovemo jevreje za savjet, pogriješićemo (osim ako ih zovemo za savjet kako da obrnemo pare).''

Da li za ovo postoje istorijski dokazi?
 
bibleboyDate: Monday, 2012-06-11, 10:47 AM | Message # 9
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Juce sam nesto malo citucko o jevrejskom kalendaru. Stoji da je teoriski pocetak meseca trenutak kada se na nebu mesec ne vidi i to zovu ''molad'', medjutim, mi smo naucavani da je pocetak meseca trenutak kada se na nebu pokaze najtanji mesecev ''srp''.
 
bibleboyDate: Monday, 2012-06-11, 10:50 AM | Message # 10
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Sve ono sto u Bibliji pise, pa cak i pitanje mesecevih mena, ako hocemo, je nesto sto nam govori o Bogu.

Bez obzira na ono sto je napisano sa facebooka, dovoljno je da covek cita Bibliju i da vidi da je sedmica tu, od prve biblijske stranice i da sedmi dan je isto tu, i da je ciklus od sedam dana isto tu. Pa polazeci od te cinjnice, smatraju neki da je nemoguce da su Jevreji taj ciklus poceli u 4. veku nase ere.
 
bibleboyDate: Monday, 2012-06-11, 10:55 AM | Message # 11
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The Weekly and Annual Sabbaths

Placing the first day of the week following the eighth of the chodesh or new moon, as found in Exodus 16, is the same counting pattern as the one for the feasts in the Bible. Seven days following the eighth would bring us to the fifteenth, etc. Using the numbers 8, 15, 22 and 29 instead of 7, 14, 21 and 28 permanently encodes the Sabbaths and feasts with the reckoning of "day one" as a rest day or “sabbath.”

We have seen that the 7th century B.C. Babylonian calendar ascribed days 7, 14, 21 and 28 of the lunar cycle as being the sabbaths. But in Exodus 16 we just saw that YEHOVAH God revealed His Sabbath days as falling on day 8, 15, 22 and 29 of the lunar cycle or calendar. While both the 7th century lunar calendar and the Hebrew apparently contradict, the only difference is that in YEHOVAH’s calendar the New Moon day is a rest day in which no work is to be done.

In the 7th century B.C. Babylonian calendar the days – just as in YEHOVAH’s calendar revealed in Exodus 16 -- are reckoned from the New Moon crescent which is counted as day one of the month. Notice in Numbers 29:12 that the Hebrew word chodesh is rendered "month." As, in all other places, it simply means "new moon." In the Babylonian calendar this event begins on the first crescent and is counted as a work day, whereas in YEHOVAH’s calendar the New Moon day is NOT a work day. So, counting from the first crescent as day one, we then arrive at what the Babylonian calendar called the 7th, but using YEHOVAH’s reckoning day one starts the day FOLLOWING the New Moon day and thus brings us to the 8th for the first Sabbath of the month.

Using the 8, 15, 22 and 29 sequence the writers of the Bible inadvertently let us know how it worked.

The main point to understand in all this is that the annual high days (with the exceptions of the last day of Unleavened Bread, Pentecost, Atonement and the last day of Tabernacles) ALWAYS FALL ON THE WEEKLY SABBATH! That this is so can be corroborated by Ezekiel 46, where it says:

Verse 1: Thus says the Lord God: "The gateway of the inner court that faces toward the east shall be shut THE SIX WORKING DAYS; but on the SABBATH it shall be opened, and on the day of the NEW MOON [chodesh] it shall be opened.

Verse 3: Likewise the people of the land shall worship at the entrance to this gateway before the Lord on the Sabbaths and the New Moons [chodesh].

Notice here that it says the gate "shall be shut the six working days," then EXCLUDES the Sabbath AND new moon from these days. Notice also, that the annual "feasts" aren't specifically mentioned -- this would seem like a huge oversight on Ezekiel's part. But we have just learned that three of the annual high days fall on weekly Sabbaths, so they must therefore be implied in the above verses. And again, the Law doesn't specify the new moon as a time of worship -- but here it is certainly understood by Ezekiel. Now in the current seven-day cycle we use today, the "new moon" as well as the "feasts" appear randomly on various days of our week. If our present weekly cycle had been in existence when the above passage was written, then the six days in which the gate was to be shut would be INTERRUPTED ONCE EVERY MONTH for the new moon, and at other times for the four high days. So with this passage alone we can see a SABBATH PATTERN that includes the NEW MOON and thereby the LUNAR CALENDAR!

Moving now to the Book of Numbers we find, in chapter 29, further proof that YEHOVAH God expects us to keep His weekly Sabbaths in the quarters of the moon. In numbers 29 there is a pattern set up for the sacrifices to be made during the Feast of Tabernacles. It states:

Verse 12: And on the fifteenth day of the seventh month [chodesh] you shall have a holy convocation. You shall do no customary work, and you shall keep a feast to the Lord seven days.

The first day of the Feast of Tabernacles is a sabbath wherein no work is to be done, and an "holy convocation," just as in the Passover and Unleavened Bread season.
 
bibleboyDate: Monday, 2012-06-11, 10:55 AM | Message # 12
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[size=12]The text then lists certain sacrifices to be made on that day, followed with a sequence of days through to the next high sabbath on the eighth day of the feast week. It counts --

Vs. 17: on the second day...[certain sacrifices];

Vs. 20: on the third day...[certain sacrifices];

Vs. 23: on the fourth day...[certain sacrifices];

Vs. 26: on the fifth day...[certain sacrifices];

Vs. 29: on the sixth day...[certain sacrifices];

Vs. 32: on the seventh day...[certain sacrifices];

Vs. 35: on the eighth day, (in addition to the sacrifices), "you shall have a sacred assembly. You shall do no customary work.

Obviously, the days in between the beginning and ending high sabbaths, i.e. day two through day seven, constitutes six days, even though they are numbered "two through seven." However, NONE of those days mention assembling or refraining from work. Moreover, NONE of those days and their prescriptions mention even the possibility of being interrupted by a "weekly" Sabbath, in the event that one should occur simultaneously to them. This is assuming, of course, for the sake of argument, that our current seven-day cycle was then in force. As the saying goes, silence is golden. What this outline of sacrifices does say -- loud and clear -- is that it was a pattern of prescriptions meant to be used REPEATEDLY during the Feast of Tabernacles -- year after year, again and again!

Because there were specific instructions to assemble and refrain from work on the first and last high holy days, but WERE NONE with regard to those six days in between, the Book of Numbers has preserved for us a CLEAR glimpse of what was second nature to the ancient Israelites – A WEEK OF THE LUNAR CALENDAR which flowed throughout all sabbaths, new moons and annual high holy days.


Ocigledno da je za Jevreje dan u kojem se pojavljivao mlad mesev bio prvi dan meseca tj. Mladina, zato su kod njih Subote u mesecu bile 8, 15, 22, 29, a kod Vavilonaca 7, 14, 21, 28, jer je za njih taj dan kada se pojavljivao nov mesec bio radni, nisu ga nazalost postovali.
 
bibleboyDate: Monday, 2012-06-11, 10:58 AM | Message # 13
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Obviously, the days in between the beginning and ending high sabbaths, i.e. day two through day seven, constitutes six days, even though they are numbered "two through seven." However, NONE of those days mention assembling or refraining from work. Moreover, NONE of those days and their prescriptions mention even the possibility of being interrupted by a "weekly" Sabbath, in the event that one should occur simultaneously to them. This is assuming, of course, for the sake of argument, that our current seven-day cycle was then in force. As the saying goes, silence is golden. What this outline of sacrifices does say -- loud and clear -- is that it was a pattern of prescriptions meant to be used REPEATEDLY during the Feast of Tabernacles -- year after year, again and again!


Dakle kod praznika Senica, koja je velika godisnja Subota prvi i osmi dan su bile doslovne sedmicne subote, jer se za 6 dana izmedju njih ne navodi ni jedan dan da je bio neradan.
 
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